3D Printers - Getting Your Feet Wet

[dreinecke]

Excellent info folks!

I pulled the trigger on the Creality3D Ender. Cannot wait to try it out!

[viejoronnie]

Nimrod, good day mate:

Great post. I am following this topic for information purposes. I am a retired engineer, but 3d printing is out of my wheelhouse and hobby budget right now. When a relatively inexpensive good scanner/printer combo comes out it might sell like hot cakes. I would like to see such a system that you could put in an old OOP slot car body in the scanner, then seamlessly prints it out on the printer. That is probably technically possible now, but at a very high cost, correct?

[chappyman66]

Here are a few things that I print.
Wheels:
These are all 15x8 but scale up is easy. They are actually pretty round....I don't get hop on my track.


Chassis and pods and guide flags:


Inline chassis for Strombecker cars....the back chassis includes a guide flag that I print.


A different chassis and a Porsche 356 body:


Most of these originated in some form from Thingiverse and I modified them using Tinkercad.

[MrFlippant]

I purchased a Prusa i3 Mk3. It costs $750 for the kit, plus shipping (currently free for Black Friday).

* What do you like about the printer?
It's been a great printer, but seeing other printers and older ones, the thing I probably appreciate the most is the magnetically attached, flexible steel build plate with PEI coating. Why? Because I never have to use a scraper to get my print off the printer. I just pop the sheet off, flex it, and POP! my print comes off easily. No tape, or glue, or scrapers. Just print, pop, and print again. I do have to keep it clean, especially from skin oil, so I use cheap cotton gloves when I need to remove a print this way. Sometimes I can just grab it and snap it off, though, depending on the model. I would never buy a printer that didn't have this.

* What do you dislike?
Mmm... the price, maybe? Still, for everything it is, I still think it's reasonable. I wish the build volume was larger (210x210x250mm), but that's always the case no matter how big it is. ;-)

* Reliability, parts & service?
Once you get past the learning stages, it's very reliable. Parts are readily available, and customer support is fantastic. If a part fails on it's own, they will help you troubleshoot, and then ship out a replacement part if needed.

* Hidden extras, costs, etc.?
Not really. Although I printed things for my printer for fun, nothing was needed. I didn't need to purchase or print parts or upgrades to make it reliable. It just is.

* Learning curve - how much time does it take to get up-to-speed?
ALL 3D printers will have a learning curve. I think this one is pretty shallow, though. Once it's been configured, it just works.

* Types of slot car parts you are making (perhaps include some pictures)?
Mainly accessories and scenery so far.

* Types of material used to create your 3D slot car parts?
PLA so far, but will get into ABS and PETG and TPU soon. This printer has virtually no material limitations.

* What types of software do you use when designing parts and to prepare the design for printing?
Fusion 360. Lots of great tutorials on how to design with it out there. Most of the stuff I print is freely available for download, though.

* Would you recommend your printer to others?
Absolutely!

[aviva7]

I still think shapeways and similar places are a better bet than home printers.

[MrFlippant]

They fill a need. In some cases, that need does not justify the cost. Shapeways uses a technology call SLS. It's laser sintered nylon. That technology is perfect for a business like Shapeways, because optimal use of the printer is to entirely fill the print volume with objects. Otherwise, you end up wasting a lot of the special powder, because it can't be re-used without adding in fresh powder, otherwise you lose quality. With this tech, there is no need for support structure. The objects can "float" in the build volume because the powder itself is the support. It's pretty messy, too, because the powder is like dust, and needs to be cleared out/off of the finished print. These printers are very expensive, and simply not something a consumer could normally consider.

SLA printing is becoming more popular for consumer printing. This is the cured resin method. It has exceptionally good resolution and surface quality. It can be pretty strong as well, though it does require support structures for complex models. It's pretty messy, though, requiring a cleaning of the finished print, and then a curing process, which is often another piece of hardware to buy. One downside to this type is that the build area for most consumer level printers is pretty small. We're talking small tablet at best, large cell phone size most of the time, and then whatever height they can get out of the machine. Arguably, the surface quality for these is better than SLS like Shapeways. These printers are still pretty expensive for consumers, though.

FDM printing, the kind you apparently don't like, where filament is melted and extruded layer by layer, is still the most consumer friendly method. It's the most reasonably priced, and with advancements in printer tech, the quality is getting to be pretty darn good. It's probably the cleanest method, with very little waste (supports), very little cleanup (removing supports). It can be quite strong, with a range of materials up to and including carbon fiber infused nylon. Admittedly, because of the "layers", this method is best for utilitarian items, but there are some materials that are easily post-processed for a smooth finish, such as ABS and acetone vapor smoothing. Again, with improvements in tech, the quality is fast approaching that of SLS printing.

It all comes down to the value of things to each person. If I want a couple hundred figures for my track spectators, and only need them to meet the 5 foot rule, then it's actually cheaper to build a cheap FDM printer and a spool or two of cheap filament. Not to mention, I can say I did it myself. :) If you're willing to pay Shapeways prices, then that's a good value for you. :)

[GRUNZ]

The current 3D printed tech, even the SLS utilised by Shapeways, is not as good as injected mold for bodies: the res is too low and grainy.
I have seen the Area71 cars and still they look too grainy even after a master like Tamar has been working on them for months.
So for me 3D tech is mainly for chassis, pods, lightweight and flexible parts (wings, mirrors, etc), and interiors.
I think that the FDM printing is very good at this...but I do not have one to test. I have been mainly buying this kind of stuff from Shapeways and has opened up huge possibilities.

[Wobble]

Nimrod, … an HQ Manaro? … Tell me more!

[-Nimrod-]

Hey Mate,

Yep, but it has issues, the original model had the body of the 4 door, but had two doors showing.
I've forwarded a copy to Phil in Tazzy, I believe he's already taken molds and re-created both versions from my one incorrect version.
I was hoping the kits would be out by now as it's been quite a while already.
I haven't been able to print much recently due to the location of my printer.
The family is going on a holiday soon so I get 10 free days of 3D printing, WooooHoooo!!!!
I'll take a few more pics, these would be an fantastic racing against the Scaley Ford XB & XC's

Cheers
NimROD

[aviva7]

The HO bodies from Shapeways can be painted up real good after an hour of sanding, and when raced against the same chassis with the stock Mega-G Formula bodies, can win.

For example:



Once we reach the point home scanning is point and save, home printers will make total sense. Once you make files though, it makes sense to put them on Shapeways even if you home print.

[ccobra]

The most time consuming part of the home FDM printer is learning what it can do and can't do. For example I started out with a $600 Solidoodle printer which was similar to the Makerbot but instead of having a wooden frame it had a metal frame around it. I feel its main issue was the 12v power supply. It took what seemed an eternity to warm up the platform and nozzle before it would start printing. Then it wouldn't get hot enough for good part adhesion between layers. But the worse part was you had a time limit on your prints, anything over an hour and it would have issues with either forgetting where it was printing or just extrude out some strings. My current printer has a 24v power supply and I've done some 12 hour prints with no issues.
Another important item to me is the software that is used with the printer. The first printer I had to download two different brands of software just to try and decide which one to use. I found a lot of information on the internet on how to set it up but for a pritn and go person like me it was a hassle to remember all of those settings and the supports were constantly changing from print to print. My current printer uses CURA for Lultzbot which has three simple settings for the filament, Beginner, Intermediate, and expert which calls out the filament by type and brand name. Then there are three settings for the print quality, standard, high speed and high detail. After that decision you can decide to add support and a brim for printing. The most difficult part is going back to the manufacturers website and either downloading the latest CURA version and/or downloading the latest settings for the filament. With that said, I've had pretty good luck with my printer and have received some outstanding service support when needed even though my current printer is over three years old. The only issue that I've had is getting into a hurry to print something out and only after a short time I end up with a flat forehead because I had designed something to tight to get all of the parts together. But the joy is getting things that aren't normally available or trying something different.

As far as making it easier to finish, I normally spend about an hour and a half on preparing the bodies for paint. This includes removing the support and brim material and a light sanding to remove the high spots, then adding a light coat of XTC-3D epoxy to fill in the gaps left over from the layers being laid down by the printer.

[MrFlippant]

Good stuff, Cobra. That's a great example of how much better FDM printing has gotten over the years. The Prusa i3 Mk3 comes with a 24v PSU and warms up in just a couple minutes. It doesn't have any problems with fast and/or long prints. I've had prints that take well over 30 hours with no problems. Although it's 100% open source (Prusa freely share EVERYTHING, including files for the printed parts, and BOM if you want to build your own, or redesign parts of it, or whatever), they DO provide all the software needed to print things. Their site provides easy links to a single download that installs their version of Slic3r. They also include a simple interface called Prusa Control, but that will be integrated into Slic3r PE (Prusa Edition) soon, so just one program with different modes. Firmware updates are quite regular as the community not only tests but often provides firmware changes that they incorporate and/or improve upon. They still provide firmware updates for their older models, though hardware often limits what changes can be made for the REALLY old models.

To be clear, as much as I love my printer and would certainly encourage people to consider it, I mention all that to show that the tech is progressing nicely. It's not problem free, and will take a LOT to make it truly plug and play for non-tinkering consumers, but it's getting a LOT better than mere months ago.

[HWPSlotCars]

[MrFlippant]

Can't argue with those results. :)

[chappyman66]

Refreshing the thread.