top 10 - the working bits & pieces

1/43rd Scale Slot Car Forum

top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby pfuetze » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:24 am

As per Lloyds request, i´m giving you some details about the working bits& pieces in the Top 10 ProNoMag cars:

Exige - Claus

3D printed PDFF typ 3 motorpod chassis, design by me, printed by shapeways
front & rear ball bearings
2.38mm axle
go!motor
20 tooth crown
10 tooth pinion
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws in body holders glued to the body

Image

Porsche - Daniel:

SMC chassis (SlotDevilMicroChassis)
available from CarGo customs
Slotdevil 6025 motor
front axle - no bearings, hold by chassis
rear ball bearings
pinion & crown from CarGo
2.38mm axles
available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws clipped to the sides of the body into holders glued to the body

Image

Benz - Tilo:

scratchbuilt chassis with front and rear suspension - carbon and brass plates
Slotdevil 6025 motor
front & rear ball bearings
pinion & crown from CarGo
2.38mm axle
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws clipped to the sides of the body into holders glued to the body

Image
Image

Porsche 917 - Aki

3D printed PDKD typ3 motorpod chassis,design by me, printed by shapeways
front axle - no bearings, hold by chassis
rear ball bearings
2.38mm axle
Slotdevil 6025 motor
pinion & crown from CarGo
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws in body holders glued to the body

Image

Omega - Uwe:

Fun One chassis
(made in germany, no longer available)
Slotdevil 6025 motor
front & rear ball bearings
pinion & crown from CarGo
2.38mm axles
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws in body holders glued to the body

Image

BMW Gr.5 - Uwe:

3D printed PDFF typ 3 motorpod chassis, design by me, printed by shapeways
front & rear ball bearings
2.38mm axle
go!motor
pinion & crown from CarGo
2.38mm axles
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws in body holders glued to the body

Image

Camaro - Tilo

scratchbuilt chassis carbon plates & aluminium
Slotdevil 6025 motor
front & rear ball bearings
pinion & crown from CarGo
2.38mm axle
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws clipped to the sides of the body into holders glued to the body

Image
Image

Bus - Uwe

Fun One chassis
(made in germany, no longer available)
Slotdevil 6025 motor
front & rear ball bearings
pinion & crown from CarGo
2.38mm axles
parts available from CarGo customs

body mounting with 4 screws clipped to the sides of the body into holders glued to the body

Image
Image

Cuda - CarGo

SCX compact chassis - added weight
Alumium wheels
RadioShack motor
pinion and crown from CarGo
lead lead lead

Image
.
.
.
.
.
summarize:

no rocket science included, except maybe for Tilo!

Tires:
all cars ran on CarGo HighGrip Tires or maybe Ortmann. BarcBiteTires offered the same level of grip!

guides:
i got 1/32nd guides again, which were too long to get around the tighest corner. the guides stuck there. shortened them to the length of a

stock SCX compact guide, which works fine.
Printed guides worked flawless, because they are designed for woodtrack use. short in length for tight corners, but reaching deep into the

slot, right at the limit.

one word about motorpod-chassis:
the pod is designed to allow some movement between the two parts of the chassis. Therefore - tightening those screws is against the design.

Normally i make the cones for the screws a little deeper than they come from the printers (i can´t make them deeper in the modell, as i´m

desinging on th limit of what shapeways will print).
So, make sure the hole is a little bigger than the screw to allow movement, make sure the screws allow just a tenth of a millimeter of

movement.

body holders:
i for myself on my track do not like tightened body screws.
i set up my cars to allow a tenth of a millimeter of movement between body and chassis - in all directions. tight body screws make the cars

edgy and harder to controll. just my likings.

bearings:
doesn´t matter if the bearing is a ball bearing, brass bearing or simple bearings like in the SCX compact chassis: no play in any bearing!
especially in the front: i see loose axles in the front - they create vibrations. and vibrations are wasted energy from the motor that will

not accelerate the car, but only make noise.

gearing:
i´ve only written CarGo above:
the 6025 motor is running fine with a gearing of 8/9/10 pinion to a 23/24/25 crown gear (no matter if MB Slot, Slot.it or Slotdevil)
the Go! motor gets under heavy load if you use a long gearing. the Exige ran with 10/20 and won, so it will work with a lightweight car.

axles:
2.38mm looks like standard in 1/43rd cars here.

wheels:
Exige won with 3D printed wheels from my design, 4th placed 917, too.
rest of the cars on aluminium wheels
sorry, i do not know where to get alumium wheels (only source: slotbox.de 10mm wheels with a width of 6, 8, or 10mm (maybe there are 11mm

as well)

hope this helps!

Ciao,
Peter
User avatar
pfuetze
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: Austria

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby BARC 1 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:26 am

Thank you Peter

Do you have any spec on the Slot Devil motor as it seemed to be the motor of choice of the top runners. I would be interested in the RPM rating of these.

Cheers

Dan
Cheers
Image
User avatar
BARC 1
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:03 pm
Location: Grande Prairie Alberta

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby taskak » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:37 am

Dan, here is a Slot Devil motor specs from http://slotcarparts.de/

25000u/12V/0,17A 90g/cm

My Porsche had BARC tires but only in the rear and I think I added ball bearings to the front axle.
I have a feeling that BARC tires doesn't work as front tires, too bouncy in a high speed possibly?

edit, http://slotcarparts.de/ got aluminium wheels as well
User avatar
taskak
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Finland

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby pfuetze » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:09 am

no, Aki, i can not confirm that.

BUT all tires need to be sealed when used as front tires.
i had cars with O-rings as fronts, which should not provide grip. but they did. cars simply handle better with zero grip on the front axle
So, BARC Bites can also be used on the front, i do not see any point why not. But be sure to seal them - CA, clear coat, nail polish - pink is prefered ;)
User avatar
pfuetze
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: Austria

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby taskak » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:22 am

Ok then, nevermind.
I used Future for sealing
User avatar
taskak
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Finland

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby pfuetze » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:30 am

the future stayed quite soft, right?
was it your car with quite soft front tires and a quite soft sealing on them? i can´t remember...
i think a harder sealing might work better, just to be sure to have no grip.
but front tire was no big issue in this race, anyhow. i would have reported loudly as i really do not like it LOL
User avatar
pfuetze
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: Austria

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby BARC 1 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:46 pm

taskak wrote:Dan, here is a Slot Devil motor specs from http://slotcarparts.de/

25000u/12V/0,17A 90g/cm

My Porsche had BARC tires but only in the rear and I think I added ball bearings to the front axle.
I have a feeling that BARC tires doesn't work as front tires, too bouncy in a high speed possibly?

edit, http://slotcarparts.de/ got aluminium wheels as well



OK that is 10K RPM more and twice the torque of the BARC motor so it would make sense it has the power to be in front in a good chassis

Just to be clear the BARC Bites were equal to the other tires? In one of your reports you said you thought the car would have done better with out the tire issue, and I think you meant that fact they needed more truing, not that they didn't have traction.


Cheers

Dan
Cheers
Image
User avatar
BARC 1
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:03 pm
Location: Grande Prairie Alberta

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby LloydL » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:19 pm

Thank you Peter, I can clearly see my mistakes now!

Regards, Lloyd.
User avatar
LloydL
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:48 am
Location: Norwich, UK

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby taskak » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:26 pm

BARC 1 wrote:Just to be clear the BARC Bites were equal to the other tires? In one of your reports you said you thought the car would have done better with out the tire issue, and I think you meant that fact they needed more truing, not that they didn't have traction.


I was under the impression that it was specifically front tires on your cars and my cars had a bad hop in front tires.
BARC tires seems to be soften than CarGo tires, so that's why I suspected that they might bounce since we both had them.
I am not blaming your tires Dan, they got excellent grip.

Cheers

Aki
User avatar
taskak
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Finland

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby pfuetze » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:45 pm

To make this clear:
grip/traction seems to on the same level between all the PU tires on the market.

the reason for slowing down the car was always not so good tire trueing.
and on the front of Dan´s car, it was not only untrue tires, it was especially way too play in the front axle.

i want to build up 3 SCX compact Nascar bodies with a brass plate / printed guide holder - motor holder that will use the BarcBites on printed wheels. Will report about grip when they run
User avatar
pfuetze
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: Austria

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby BARC 1 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:04 pm

taskak wrote:
BARC 1 wrote:Just to be clear the BARC Bites were equal to the other tires? In one of your reports you said you thought the car would have done better with out the tire issue, and I think you meant that fact they needed more truing, not that they didn't have traction.


I was under the impression that it was specifically front tires on your cars and my cars had a bad hop in front tires.
BARC tires seems to be soften than CarGo tires, so that's why I suspected that they might bounce since we both had them.
I am not blaming your tires Dan, they got excellent grip.

Cheers

Aki


Your comments were not taken as blaming, only fact finding. I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who wants to improve their car's performance.

Yes I need to spend more time on the front wheels. They for sure did not get the attention that the back wheels get. To be up front the car must be perfect, and I admit I should have spent more time on the front wheels. Next year may go with the small o ring. I noticed just about all the top cars used O-rings for front rubber

Re BARC tires. Yes they are a softer material. Probably not a good tire for an all purpose car, but if you want traction for about 150 laps, they are pretty good.
Cheers
Image
User avatar
BARC 1
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:03 pm
Location: Grande Prairie Alberta

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby pfuetze » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:51 pm

i hate the look of O-rings as front tires.
standard tires, nicely sealed work as good or as bad as O-rings.
Tilo´s car did use hard front tires, not rings.
User avatar
pfuetze
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: Austria

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby BARC 1 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:03 am

Yes they are not very scale, but 9 of the top 10 are running tires that if they are not o rings are close to it.

Next year for me it will be thinner coated tires and a smaller guide. I think all of my cars had 1/32 guides, and it sounds as if these could also be an issue on the tight turns. Perhaps it was the guide and not the wheels that were interfering with the top performance? I bought a bunch of your guides, so I will use those in next years race.

May go back to a GO! motors as well as they are 30,000rpm and speed should not be an issue with them. The challenge will be to build a chassis with the right gearing to get the most out of it. For my home layout, the higher rpm never gets utilized but the Desmo has a good straight so the extra speed might be welcome.

Really good stuff coming out of this . Should make us all more competitive next year.
Cheers
Image
User avatar
BARC 1
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:03 pm
Location: Grande Prairie Alberta

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby pfuetze » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:01 am

i´ll put in one or two printed guide in your package so you can try them.
one point i remember from one of your cars (wihtout going in the garage and take a look) - the guide was way to wobbly.
The guide needs to be fixes, so there is only rotation possible - it simply needs a good bearing, like axles.
So, the lease lengt i would suggest for a 3mm guide stem, you need 3mm of material to "guide" the guide stem of the guide.

And - once more - really soft and flexible guide cables. I´m using 0.35mm² silicone guide cable. I think this is 22AWG cable. I purchased the last cable from AliExpress. searched for "22AWG silicone".
User avatar
pfuetze
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:35 pm
Location: Austria

Re: top 10 - the working bits & pieces

Postby BARC 1 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:28 am

I have a bunch of your guides, so no need to send me any to try. However I will always welcome your generous offer if you are so inclined
Cheers
Image
User avatar
BARC 1
HRW SlotCar Veteran!
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:03 pm
Location: Grande Prairie Alberta

Next

Return to HRW 1/43rd Scale

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests