new proxy for Pre WW2 racecars...interested?

[Kevan]

Any chassis pics?

[DavidMitcham]

Andi Rowland and I have had a great day driving the ITP cars but its been a long one so here are the results; photographs and comments on the 'race' and cars will follow over the next few days. All the cars ran well without problems other than a bearing detaching itself from Dave Capelen's Maserati chassis towards the end of its run which it nevertheless completed.

Best Regards

David

[kidvoltage]

Thanks for the report David. Midfield is an honor.

[BARC 1]

Thanks for the effort and report on getting the first race in the books.

Congratulations to the guys on the podium.

Very pleased to finish just outside the top 3. The car behaved well in testing and was a consistant runner, and easy to drive. Very close group of cars, so it looks like there could be real volitility in the finishing order as the proxy races on

[DavidMitcham]

The race format for both classes of cars was two heats of 20 laps of Rockwell Park with each car driven once by Andi and once by David. As the circuit is difficult to marshal in some places, and anyway there were only two of us, we decided that any de-slots out of immediate reach would result in restarting a 20 lap run but ‘offs’ that could be immediately resolved would not. The cars ran in practice time order in both 20 lap heats with late arrivals which hadn’t taken part in practice being the last to run.

The Voiturettes were first to race in the morning. All the cars were quite closely matched but it soon became apparent that the front runners were going to be Mac’s Alfetta, Keith’s Mercedes, and Steve’s Maserati with John’s Maserati and David’s Alfa a little way behind. The five cars traded fastest laps but it was consistent laps that told in the end with Mac just coming out the winner by 0.01 seconds and with fastest lap of the heat; less than 2 seconds covered the first three finishers. Other notable performances came from Mike Buss’s Maserati which ran very well in the first heat but faded in the second, and John Warren’s Maserati which made a four place improvement in the second heat to finish in second place and moving him up to fourth overall.

Here is a picture of the Voiturette podium and some pictures of the cars on the circuit.

















The GP cars ran in the afternoon and confirmed the impression of practice that they were rather handful on this tight and twisty circuit with only a small performance advantage over the Voiturettes. As a consequence there were a few more off track excursions than in the morning with several re-started races (this wasn’t the result of any lunchtime excess, we only drank water). The front runners in the first heat were Mac’s Maserati, Mike Dove’s long tail Auto Union, and Mike Buss’ Auto Union with the Auto Unions of Steve Morrow and Dave Capelen a little way behind. The Delahaye might have been challenging the top three too but a minor off towards the end of its first heat run caused in a tyre to partially leave the rim which resulted in an imbalance its remaining laps. The result of the first heat was a win for Mac by 0.002 seconds and fastest lap of the heat and of the day, with the two Mikes very close behind. The second heat saw another good run by Mike Buss whilst Mac and Mike Dove recorded slower runs but their first heat results ensured they salvaged third and second respectively. The surprise performance of the second heat was by Dan Crowley’s HO motor-powered Auto Union which moved from seventh to fourth which resulted in a fourth overall. The other big improvements in the second heat were for Monte Saager’s Mercedes, up to second, Max Rossmasler’s Auto Union, up to sixth, and the Delahaye up to third with fastest lap of the heat.

A special mention should be made of Andi’s Miller. It is not only a superb piece of innovative engineering and craftsmanship it is also a pleasure to drive and has great acceleration out of the corners. However Andi and I felt it needs a bit more development and track time to get the most out of it. It could be the surprise of the proxy once it loosens up a little.

Here is a picture of the GP podium and some general shots of the cars on the circuit and in the pits.

























Unfortunately we forgot to take any pictures of the Miller.

Andi may be posting some comments on the cars in the next few days.

All the cars have been packed away in their transporters and have already reached the next venue at Manor Park. The races will be run at a date to be confirmed by Andi but it will be in the next couple of weeks.

The period mechanic figures in the pits and most of the trackside advertising banners are from Marlon at Shadowfax.

Best Regards

David

[historiceng]

David and Andi,

Thank you very much for your hard work and the great analysis and presentation.
Apart from Harry's oval race last year this is my first proxy as you know, I have really enjoyed all of the input and research and building, definately hooked!

Thank you again

Best wishes

[kidvoltage]

Thanks for the report. Almost like being there.

I there a single picture of the whole track?

[Conti_rowland]

Well, what a fantastic event David put on....

First i'd like to say, on behalf of everyone, that David has really managed to steer this series to a strong start.
He has been helpful and diplomatic in ensuring all the entered cars made it to the start line which is aligned with John's spirit of an inclusive atmosphere.
Long before I arrived on race day he had practiced and prepared all the cars.

I would also like to thank David and Margaret for looking after me on race day, feeding me and ensuring I was well looked after for the racing.

I think it is fair to say that most proxy races are held by drivers on circuits that they are familiar with so for me to arrive, never having even seen David's lovely circuit, and race the cars with only a few warm up laps may have added a 'wildcard' element to the result. I apologise in advance for anyone who, on seeing the result, feels they lost out in 'heat 2'. I was heat 2 and the occasional 'off' may have slightly biased things.

On the other hand, David, ever the gentleman, was almost relieved when an off of his own car while he was driving meant he arrived well down the order. I'd watch that Delahaye in future rounds if I were you!!

I took quite a lot of notes during the racing on the cars. However, i've decided I should withhold my comments until I practice the cars on my own circuit over the next week or so.

One thing David and I discussed a lot was how sound is very important in slotracing. It is something that i've seen very little talked about but for me is important in proxy racing where you are not familiar with the cars and one driver races a succession of cars. When a car sounds solid and quiet it gives one a sense of calm and confidence so that you can concentrate and push the car to its limit. Maybe its also about hearing the tyres on the track itself to understand where the limits are. When instead the car is rattling about making screeching and scraping noises it is not conducive to a feeling of security. In my case this definitely affected how I raced the cars. It would be interesting to hear from others on this subject.

Anyway, congratulations to everyone for getting a car to the start line. Clearly lots of people expressed an interest and i'm always in awe of those that actually follow through.
Next, congratulations to the winners and top cars of each group. It seems that making a good handling scratchbuilt car is not as easy as it sometimes looks on the fora!
Then, there are clearly a handful of really beautiful looking cars that will compete for the concourse result in Tyneside! Some really special scratchbuilidng has gone into these cars. All sorts of materials, techniques and technology have been employed for the chassis and the bodies alike.

My final comment is that despite the huge range of cars the results feel quite close to me. Just seconds separate the competitors which is quite extraordinary given how different they all are!

Best wishes
Andi

[BARC 1]

A little follow up on the motor in the BARC Auto Union. Not really an HO motor, But I use it almost exclusively in all my 143 scale cars. It is a Mineabea 6 pole square can motor. It turns about 17,000 rpm @ 12 volts with just under 90 gm/cm of torque. Ideally it would be nice if it was turning 21 K to make it a little quicker. It is an easy motor to drive. I thought it would suit this proxy where the tires are skinny and the COG rather high. When driving it you can tell the car is underpowered but the consistant lap times have a tendency to surprise at race end.

[Conti_rowland]

Round Two of the Pre War Racing series took place at the famous Manor Park circuit.

Manor Park is a quick circuit composed of 3 straights, two sweeping bends, one of which doubles back on itself, the esses and two hairpins. It tests all aspects of a car, however it is also very flowing designed to simulate the driving aspects of larger circuits. The mixture of fast straights and tight bends requires a car with great acceleration and strong brakes.

Once the drivers had recovered from Round One at Rockwell they began practice for the second round. In the meantime their mechanics had made a few running repairs. The most critical of these was re-soldering the inside rear wheel bearing to Dave. C’s Maserati 4CM. The original spacer was deemed too wide and replaced by a series of selected spacers to give the correct gear mesh. All tyres were carefully cleaned for the new outing and the track swept to ensure maximum adhesion.

At Manor Park the track surface is very abrasive being sandtex paint. This gives high levels of adhesion for rubber but tends to create a ‘marbles’ effect for urethane so tyre choice was going to be crucial. Only the track is grippy, the curbs and run off areas are purposely left flat painted with little grip in comparison with he track. Since the racing line puts the inside (or outside) tyres on this less grippy surface there can tend to be dire consequences for applying too much acceleration when half off the track!

The weather was hot and sunny with an air temperature of around 27deg. C making the grip levels even higher than normal.

As is customary the Voiturettes set out first, each completing 10 laps of the track.

Initial running order was random with Mike Buss in his Maserati 4CM setting off first. He had a great clean run and reported that “the car feels solid here and the motor is running quick and quietly. Overall the car gave me a feeling of confidence today with the brakes allowing us to get deep into the corner zone before application”.
He managed a 6.47s lap and an overall 10 lap time of 67.18s showing good consistency. The track was perhaps still warming up and cleaning off so perhaps the times were not ultimately representative of his form.

Next out was Keith Rollerston in his Mercedes W165. The car did not give a feeling of confidence as it tended to rattle around the track. Keith said “the gearing was giving us great acceleration but not much braking. The tyres were sliding a lot so we were fishtailing everywhere off the track”. Times of 6.51s for a single lap and 67.65 meant that he looked very similar to Mike Buss in terms of overall performance.

Next out was Steve M. The Maserati 4CM (popular car int his series) appeared to be suffering from lack of power as the acceleration was slow and heavy. One spin and a long slide off onto the marbles resulted in some slow laps as the tyres cleaned themselves off. All that meant he was wasn’t able to show his full potential ending the session with a 6.77s lap and total time of 75.77 way off the pace.

Fourth out was Mac with his Alfetta 158. His car suffered from slow acceleration with him complaining of feeling underpowered. The car sounded and felt super smooth but lack of acceleration and brakes meant that he couldn’t maximise this circuit’s characteristics. He ended with a disappointing 6.31s lap although his overall time was consistent at 65.90 which suggested over a race distance he might fare reasonably well.

Then out came Dave Capelan with his Maserati 4CM. He reported that the car “felt really alive, fishtailing under acceleration and braking”. However it “had fast acceleration, running nice and loose”. To us it looked like a bit of a handful. Would he be able to pull it off lap after lap for a whole race distance? Lap time 6.54s and 10 lap time was 69.83s.

Sixth to pull out of the pits was Thomas. His Mercedes W165 looked like a super solid runner. His obviously smooth acceleration and grip in the corners suggested a good power to weight ratio. He did have a few minutes as his hard edged tyres tended to hang on and then suddenly break away. He jumped up the times sheet with a 6.21s lap and 63.72s overall time.

Next came Eric in his Richard Bolster Special. A fast car in a straight line he had a few forays onto the grass as he tried to get around the hairpin and other corners. He complained that “the front is too light and I was suffering terrible understeer… just going straight on at the corners”. The high centre of gravity also made it look quite ‘tippy’. He managed a very competitive single lap of 6.21s to match Thomas but the overall time of 76.63 did not bode well for the full race distance. Eric looked quite exhausted at the end of practice!

Eighth up was Mike Dove. His distinctive black painted Maserati 4CM was going well if letting out a bit of a rattle. It seemed to be giving confidence for long runs. He had just the right grip level for this track and it looked like the short wheelbase was allowing him to get round the hairpins with ease. Possibly partly as a result of the track continuing to rubber in and heat up he managed a 6.34s lap with a total time of 64.28s.

The penultimate runner was John Warren in the sleek Maserati 4CL. The high pitch scream of the motor and smooth drive suggesting a purposeful drive to come. This combination proved by far the quickest on the day with strong acceleration and great braking allowing high speed in the straights with confidence to get through the corners. John said “my only concern was that the narrow track and high grip preventing me from drifting and this led to a slightly tippy feel in the hair pin”. He managed a 5.74s lap and an overall time of 63.25s.

Last out was David M. His car was significantly lighter than most. The beautifully polished red body gleaming in the sunshine. The Alfa Romeo 512 looked quick but turned out to be a slight handful with a couple of spins. David thought “it runs well but feels a bit light, maybe a bit of weight up front would help the balance and prevent understeer”. “My brakes felt a little light too”. A best lap of 6.11 with an overall time of 65.67s was a good strong position for the race.

So the results table for Voiturette Class Practice looks like this:

vOITURETTE PRACTICE TABLE.JPG

Can’t wait for the race now!!

[DavidMitcham]

Andi's brilliant report on practice at Manor Park reminded me that I hadn't posted the technical details for each car so here they are. I haven't got some of the details, or may have got some wrong, so if entrants want to let me know what they are I'll complete the table.
Best Regards

David

[Conti_rowland]

The afternoon of the Voiturette race was even hotter than practice with the front engined drivers all suffering from heat from their engines. A rare hot bank holiday weekend had seen temperatures soaring to 30 degC around the Manor Park track.

The drivers were all set for a gruelling 40 lap, single heat race and speeds were likely to be high making threading through the tight hair pins ever harder. Brakes were thought to be essential and all teams were making final adjustments to ensure they could stop well.

As the flag dropped they all got off the line without mishap and in the confusion of the first laps they were all bunched together. John was the initial leader with Thomas close behind. Eric was already at the back of the group but was staying in touch.

The first real drama erupted on lap 3. Eric at the tail of the field went straight on at the hairpin and this distracted John, who by then was already drawing clear, was first to arrive. He had to jam on his brakes to avoid hitting him as he got out of the way and the softer braked Alfa Romeo of David rammed him sending them both spinning.

Luckily no damage was caused and both quickly got back into their stride. However half the field had passed John and David slipped down to 9th? place.

From there the race settled into a fairly processional affair. Each car gradually finding its braking zone. Tyres were again critical and all lasted well.

Eric had a few more unfortunate spins, mostly at the hairpin, although on one occasion he just stopped in time from taking a short cut down the grass bank from the high speed turn two.

On lap 8 David had a second off in the hairpin, this time entirely accidental as he couldn't get the car stopped in time. This unfortunately dropped him back and rather knocked his confidence. He continued to run well passing Steve M on lap 20 but was never really in contention after that. He passed Dave C for 6th on lap 33 and was lapping quicker than the car in front of him but with the field now well spread out he was unable to get on terms and pass by the end of the race.

After the tangle with David on lap 3 John settled into a very quick pace, rarely lapping above 6s and getting as low as 5.67s which is a very good time for these cars. This also gave him the fastest lap points. Having slipped to fourth he moved up quickly passing Thomas on lap 9 and finally taking the lead from Mike B on lap 13. It was well deserved but showed how despite being clear favourite and on pole he had to battle to get his lead back.

Mike Buss was in the meantime having a thoroughly good afternoon having had a poor qualification starting down in 7th. He got into his stride early on running in 3rd but once John slipped up he was through into the lead. It was close though as he was hounded by Thomas for much of the race until he drew clear around lap 10. He and John lapped together for about 10 laps but finally he couldn't hold the charging John off. He stayed with him for some laps but eventually John pulled clear. A great second place for Mike.

Mac also settled into a good rhythm from the start and although his outright acceleration and braking were poor the weight of the car kept him pointing in the right direction as he rolled his way to the final step on the podium. Consistency was the key to his success and as others slipped up he ran through, picking up good points in this round.

Mike B's gain became Thomas's loss as he slipped from 3rd on the grid to 4th at the chequered flag. His car performed well throughout and until John passed him it looked like he might get a podium spot. His hard edged narrow tyres stopped him from drifting through the corners as others were doing.

Mike D also settled into a clean run, and although he was lapping slower than David Towards the end he held him off for a strong 5th place.

Keith made up a place from his grid position due to a nice clean run but his lack of brakes and grip meant he couldn't lap quick enough to trouble the people in front of him.

Towards the back of the field Dave C was having a struggle to keep his car pointing forwards. Fishtailing under acceleration and braking meant that he couldn't get the confidence to lap quicker and he faded into 9th place.

At the back of the field then Eric in his Richard Bolster Special had a less happy afternoon as he struggled a number of times to make it through the hairpin. After the race his mechanics decided to try adding some weight to the front end to see if that would help performance for the next round.

So that wraps up round two of this series for the Voiturettes. The mechanics are now packing everything up and the drivers are now thinking forward to the huge sweeping turns of the Tyneside venue that will host the next round. Who will be favourite there?

[Conti_rowland]

Voiturette race.jpg

Overall 2 rounds voiturette.jpg

20190425_071103.jpg

[historiceng]

Haha haha Great report.....

I read this with a huge grin and laughter. I even thought I was reading a motor Sport article by DSJ!

May I say thank you so much for all of the work and effort... great fun!

Now for a bit of a rest Phew! :text-thankyouyellow:

[Conti_rowland]

I'm glad you enjoyed it Eric! That is the point after all…..