SCCA Early Days Proxy - Just Noodling........

[glasshorsevh]

I’d really like to see something like a selection of a 16k Tuna vs an 18k Minnow. I believe the torque difference should even those two out and there are a number of cars such as a Lotus 19, 30, 40 which you’re going to be hard pressed to cram an FC130 into. That is unless you think that a 14k FC130 vs a M/TSL-1 at 14.7k gives the smaller motor enough of a boost to make it competitive. I bow to the experts, but the pieces I’m considering for this just don’t lend themselves to the FC motors.

Val

[Audi1]

Hmm, do they lend themselves to the FF-050 motors?

Allan

[Austin]

All cars run the FF-050 motors :music-rockout: :auto-driving:

[glasshorsevh]

[Audi1]

Maybe we could include one FF and one FC motor; I'd hate to say no FC motors because that's what a lot of the cars come with, stock.

Allan

[glasshorsevh]

[chappy]

If your looking at Devis, you best hurry up as I'm pretty sure they are getting out of slot related items
Bob

[Mitch58]

I think the H&R Jack Rabbit 14K motor and the FF50 Minnow would compare rather well. The H&R is much faster than the BWA and SLT motors.

[munter]

[Audi1]

We could take a look and see if we could power-match an FC and an FF motor (rpm x torque). That would be a step towards a level playing field if there really is significant interest in using FF motors.

Allan

[DRW21]

If you want a FF motor to match the torque of a 14-16k FC then check out a 18k FF, I'm guessing that's about as close as you'd get with the difference in armature mass and magnetic strength.
Just my 5 cents worth.
This proxy idea does sound like a good one.

[Audi1]

If we are going to allow both FC-050 and FC-130 motors to run together in the same proxy race, then I think we need to come close to matching them up on Power. Taking a look at Robert Livingston's New Motor List, as well as some of the manufacturer's specs, allows us to do that; at least to an approximation. No one actually knows how these two motor types will play together in a race and, therefore, the first year would have to be a simple experiment to see what the result was. Having said that, we can try as hard as we can to come close to matching the two on specs.

On rpms, the FF-050 would need to be higher, because on torque it will, definitely be lower.

There's a useful formula that Robert provided that allows us to calculate the Power (Watts) for any given motor:

(Max rpm /2) x (Max torque / 2) /100,000 = Power (Watts)

Based on that, here are some possible FF-050 and FC-130 match-ups, using available motors:

1a. H&R Jack Rabbit (FC-130): Max rpm = 15,364 / Max torque = 146 / Power = 5.6 Watts (12V)

1b. Scaleauto SC17 Tech 1 (FF-050): Max rpm = 21,124 / Max torque = 108 / Power = 5.7 Watts (12V)

Yes, both motors are available.

2a. SCC Tuna (SC-130): Max rpm = 16,000 / Max torque = 90 / Power = 3.6 Watts (12V)

2b. SRP FF-050 (FF-050): Max rpm = 15,760 / Max torque = 83 / Power = 3.3 Watts (12V)

The SCC Tuna motor has not been measured by Robert's procedure. SRP is the motor supplier to MRRC. I have received quite a few SRP motors and they perform very well.

So, knowing that you can never match FC-130 and FF-050 motors perfectly, those may be some reasonable places to start. Of course, if we don't need to use FF-050 motors, then this whole motor choice simplifies immensely.

Allan

[Audi1]

Unfortunately, on closer inspection, neither the SRP or the Scaleauto FF-050 motors are readily available. So, back to the drawing board; unless someone else wants to take a crack at it.......... I think that matching Power (Watts) is the way to go, because you'll almost always have more torque for a given rpm with an FC-130 motor that with an FF-050 motor.

Allan

[BARC 1]

Another source is ebay. You can buy Bulk FF050 for less then 2.00. The last batch I bought are running 19 K @ 12 volts. These are much better then the BWA motors that used to be available.

Not sure if anyone is interested, but perhaps and entry fee gets you a motor, and we can all race with the same motor.

Motor Size: 11.8*15.2mm

Motor Height: 26mm

Output Shaft Diameter: 1.5mm

Output Shaft Length: 11mm

Voltage: 5V
Speed: 6200rpm
No-load Current: 30MA

Voltage: 6V
Speed: 7500rpm
No-load Current: 30MA

Voltage: 7.2V
Speed: 9200rpm
No-load Current: 36MA

Voltage: 9V (rated voltage)
Speed: 12000 rpm
No-load Current: 48MA

Voltage: 12V
Speed: 16800rpm
No-load Current: 80MA

Weight: 27g

[Audi1]

Those look interesting, but I wouldn't want to see a SCCA Early Years Proxy race turn into an FF-050 only event. We need a good FC-130 option because at the end of the day, I think that most of the builders would choose to go that way; IL or SW (perhaps AW, but I doubt it). For cars the are too narrow for an FC-130 IL motor set-up, the FF-050 would be an IL option.

An FF-050 motor at 27gm? Do you mean 2.7 gm? FC-130's are usually in the range of 10gm.

Allan