SCCA Early Days Proxy - Just Noodling........

[DRW21]

MRRC also sells the SRP range of motors, our only local hobby shop gets them easy.
I have built a few cars with these 18K motors and they will keep up with a 14K Jack Rabit easy

http://www.mrrc.com/car-components/moto ... 000upm/12v for single motors and
http://www.mrrc.com/car-components/moto ... 000upm/12v for a bulk pack

[BARC 1]

I just copied the specs from the supplier, so can not confirm the weight. But you are right that seems pretty heavy. I also tached these motors at almost 20 K@ 12 volts, so those specs need to be viewed with some suspicion. Yes after I posted this I realized one of the objectives was inclusion. Start getting too specialized and that will count a lot of people out.

Take away is that bulk motors are available in quantities of over 50 at a time for sometimes less then $1.00 each. Some of these are good slot car motors. I have some really nice 19 K 130 type motors but can never use them in a proxy car as they are not readily available or clearly marked. However if an event was planned that wanted to see all the builders use the exact same motor, these can be found at a low price.

I just weighed the motors I have and they are 17 grams.

[Audi1]

Big magnets for a FF-050 motor!

Yes, I get the feeling that the FF-050 motor is only an issue for a very small number of people who might participate in a SCCA Early Years proxy. Up to now, we really only have a few people even talking about them and some of those are more trying to help with making a fair FC-130/FF-050 trade-off to help level the playing field, motor-wise.

So, I don't get the feeling that this is a big issue for many people who might sign-up; I still think that the lion's share will use FC-130 motors in either SW or IL configuration. But for those who do want to use a FF-050 motor, I would like to find the best fair trade-off on motors; both power/performance-wise and price-wise.

Allan

[glasshorsevh]

Allan,

Last comment on this issue... If you set the advertised twist to 18k, that allows for a lot of motor options and weight distributions.... but, whatever is decided, I’ll work with it and wouldn’t miss this venue for much of anything...

Val

[Audi1]

Thanks Val. I think I've found the pairing. Here's my thinking on it.

Most of these cars originally came with a black stripe 18k motor in them. For an SCCA Early Days proxy, it seems unnecessary to set the motor rpm limit below this. Yes, they can also run well at 14k rpm and 16k rpm and probably at other rpms, too, after all, gearing will tame the challenges that most motors present.

So, if that's a reasonable place to start, then one of the motors that seems to be popular in many proxies is the H&R Hawk, an advertised 18k rpm motor with 140 gcm of torque that puts out 6.3Watts of power [(max rpm/2) x (max torque/2) / 100,000 = Power (Watts)]. So, that could well be the spec FC-130 motor for this series.

For those who want an FF0-050 option, we could use the Policar PMX01; a slim can motor that they use in their F1 cars. It has an advertised 25k rpm with 95 gcm of torque and puts out 6.0 Watts of power. That's pretty close to the H&R Hawk.

I know that motors can test out differently than what the manufacture's spec states, and often times do. But, I don't think you're going to get a Power pairing that's much closer than the above; it's only a 5% difference. If people feel that the Hawk if favored, then they can plan on building a car that will use that motor. Alternatively, if they feel that the PMS01 is favored, then they can build out a car that uses that motor. Racing has always been about finding a fair advantage and exploiting it; nothing different between 1:1 and 1:32 racing when it comes to that topic.

So, that may very well be the way that we go. It will solve a potential problem for some builders who want to build out lower, more narrow cars and it will keep the playing field as level, from a power standpoint, as we can get it. Both motors are readily available from more than one source, although the Policar is about twice as expensive as the H&R.

Gentlemen, I think we may be nearing the finish line on the topic of motors for this SCCA Early Years proxy.

Allan

[Austin]

The Policar PMX01 is good for me and so is the H&R Hawk as the race is a long ways off I will try both.

[Audi1]

With a super-light car (50 gm or less), the Policar FF-050 will be the way to go. With a heavier car (70 gm or more), the H&R FC-130 will be better. In the no-mans land in between, it could go either way; just a matter of testing. My bets.

Allan

[Audi1]

Someone on another thread mentioned a Cooper Type 61:



Nice car!

Allan

[Audi1]

MGA anyone..........



Triumph Spitfire..........



Bugeye Sprite...........



A Volvo...........?



MG Midget..........



Triumph TR-3............



Corvettes galore..........









Sunbeam Alpines...........



Alfa Giuliettas...........



The Big Healey's: starting with the 100/4 and 100/6............



And the 3000's............



We may need two classes; Production and Modified........maybe a max of 2 cars per entrant; on Production / one Modified...........more to think about.......... ;)

Allan

[cj74]

Okay... I'm not a motor head or a classic car guy for 1:1 purposes of my own. However, I can definitely appreciate the appeal and aesthetic for these cars. I'd have no chance at getting one of these running if it was in my garage, but I'm definitely willing to give it a go as a slot car. Count me in if you move forward. I'll try to do some of my own research on the Ford options this time. Although I do have an affinity for Triumphs as well!

CJ

[Audi1]

[Audi1]

[chappy]

Me thinks youse is excited about this young Allan lol..
Actually i think its a great idea. Classes dont bother me since it will be a bit like Lemans where they all run and one overall winner with some class winners to.
I supoose this is where the builder has to put on his thinking hat and decide if he goes all out or builds a beauty for the run.
Seeing as all the motors will be available to all a d so will the car types, it will be a very interesting event to see who picks what and powers it with ? Lol.
Whatever way it goes , Im in , and as Val states, i wouldn't miss this one.
Thanks again Allan for getting the juices working
Bob

[DRW21]

Sounds great to me, what are the other rules now that motors are sorted?
I'm keen.

[Audi1]

Hi Dave, We're; ummm.......make that I'm, a little bit ahead of the curve here. Right now the focus is on the upcoming Can-Am proxy, with cars due May 1st. Once those cars are in-house; likely around May 2nd or shortly thereafter...........I'll put up this proxy. Right now it's a work in process, but it seems to have a pretty good following and interest level, so I'm sure it will happen. Cars will likely be due late Summer / early Fall (US timing); figure September/October, to allow the racers enough time to build out their cars over the Summer.

I really haven't given a lot of thought to it other than the cars and the motor topic, but we'll try to keep it as "to scale" as we can, with narrower wheels/tires (perhaps 7mm max), wheel inserts, open gearing, IL/SW/AW - OK, chassis material open, no body modifications unless documented, lightweight interiors and glass - OK, need for period looking driver, cockpit, etc. 3D, nothing protruding beyond the body (tires/guides/etc.), maybe two classes (Production and Modified), 8-10 races in the series (likely all in the US since that's where the SCCA races took place), routed wood tracks, concourse before the first Round. Still a lot more thinking to put into it.

Glad we've got some interest from down under! Missed you in the Can-Am, but still time to go on the Waiting List, if you'd like (hint)....

Allan