Open wheel Fun Run Proxy?

[Audi1]

At this point, it's looking like '75 on.

Allan

[Audi1]

Thanks, Chris, for the clarifications.

Overall, I like Keith's suggestion of having more choice in motors, since that makes it easier to get more people involved in this series and with Chris' comments about his experience racing at his local clubs and commercial tracks, it looks like the advantage of one motor over another; even one motor configuration over another, is pretty small. So, let's consider that list of 5 motors to be the list for this fun run/proxy.

Allan

[Austin]

Sign me up please


We run a class at SCC a while back, They ran great

F1 cars stock motors 8 volts any manufacturer , can change motor to Scalextric, M/T

Up next was Class #2, the new Open Wheel class run at 8v. This was the 1st time we ran the breakout of 7.5, and as far as I remember, no one broke out. But Josh was close a few times. While most cars were the modern style Scalextric F1 type cars, there were a few "oddballs". One being a late 60's Lotus, one being a early 90's F1 (a Williams, I believe) and the other the SCX Sigma. At the end, the Lotus came out on top, but not by much over the Williams.

1-Dickie ------ 89
2-Josh --------- 89
3-Jonathan ---- 87
4-Phil --------- 86
5-Bob --------- 86
6-Austin ------ 83
7-Dana ------- 79
8-Claudio ---- 78
9-Hugo ------- 68

Open Wheel - Austin ended the Lotus run of wins with his Ferrari. He also set a new record in this class. Congrats Austin!!

Austin --- 91.15
Bob ------ 89.85
Dickie --- 89.45
Josh ------ 89.30
Marty ---- 87.45
Lauren --- 69.55

[Aloha]

I am interested...Chris may I send my car to you already? After seeing your workshop I am sure you can do wonders with my car!!!
Aloha
Dale

[gascarnut]

I'm in on this one too, I have a few nice candidates for something special under the skirts, so to speak...

Oh, and if you need a host track, then mine is available.

[chrisguyw]

A caution to all builders!!!!...................................for those of you who are planning to use one of Scaleys newer F1 cars (cars that competed from 2011 on), please be aware that some of these cars came equipped with a FF050 motor that was ordered by Scaley with a much longer (20.8 mm) motor shaft in order that Scaley could produce models that resembled the 1:1 cars.......ie the newer 1:1 cars have very narrow back ends (for 1:1 aerodynamics), and by using a long motor shaft, Scaley could move the motor forward in the car to a wider part of the airbox/motor cover, and still utilize the motor shaft (with that 2mm nub on the pinion) to center the crown.

The M/T SL1 and the BWA/Dart 050 motors have shaft lengths of roughly 13mm, which is miles too short even if you locate the pinion on the very end of the shaft.

You could........use a sleeve to lengthen the shaft, but, alignment will be very tricky, and creating a non flexing shaft will be difficult at best ........ I do not think any of you will be happy with the results.

As a bit of a rant.....Scaleys' design/use of a 20.8 mm long motor shaft with a 1.5 mm dia., made from soft steel is/was not one of Scaleys' best ideas :scared-eek:

So...............think hard, real hard, before you settle on the new(er) Scaley Mercs, Loti, McLarens etc.

Cheers
Chris Walker

[Audi1]

Ooooh, bummer!

I re-motored a new Scaley Mercedes about a year ago. I used the Scaleauto 20k red slim can and it worked just fine, but I suspect that the Scaleauto shaft is also much longer than the M/T SL-1 or the BWA................ Hmmm, I'll have to have a close look at that one.

Thanks for the heads-up, Chris.

Interesting evolutionary path that this open wheel fun run proxy is taking.............. :roll:

Allan

[gascarnut]

What's the thinking behind the slow motors? The '75-onwards F1 cars will have wide tires, so I'm thinking it might be a bit like watching paint dry to drive a scratchbuilt frame with rubber tires and a 14k motor. Especially on tracks that run at 10 Volts.

[Audi1]

[Audi1]

See revised first post in this thread re: motors.

It seems like it's the only way that we can proceed. I remain concerned about damage to the cars; particularly the front ends, which is what gave open wheel proxy racing a somewhat "bad" name to start with. But there are so many exceptions to deal with that it seems to make more sense to warn entrants of the potential for car damage, while not limiting their choice of cars via a strict motor rule.

As the man said.....................PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

Allan

[munter]

The VRAA proxy for 61-64 1.5litre GP class cars use 14K slimline motors....they are plenty fast....but 12 volts might be better than 10 volts.

[Audi1]

This is the kind of feedback that we need; thanks. Good to see that there are others with concerns about trashing their open wheel cars, based on using bigger motors for a non-mag racing event. This is a thought thread; for planning purposes, we'll see how others feel and go from there.

I still like the 14k rpm slimcan motor idea. But, others pointed out that there are a large number of open wheel cars that ran S-can motors. So, we thought about adding S-cans. Then it was pointed out that the smaller motors would cut out the later Scaley F1 cars, because of the longer armature shafts on these cars. So, those and others raised several important exceptions to the 14k rpm slim can concept.

I know that the VRAA (Vintage Race Across America proxy - over on the SCI board) cars do very well with the 14k motors, so, clearly, that motor formula can be made to work. But, the VRAA cars are, generally, scratch built brass/piano wire chassis, so the front ends can be made to be more sturdy than the flimsy front ends that come on most plastic RTR open wheel cars.

So, no firm decision on motors at this point. I appreciate the feedback and would welcome more on this topic. When you cast a net widely (open wheel cars; '75 an up), you always find exceptions to any generality that you try to establish. The secret is, I think, to be able to know when you've come up against an exception that calls for a change in the game plan, versus one that can be worked around.

Allan

[gascarnut]

I'm OK with a spec motor, as long as it has a little more "oomph" than the NC-1 or M/T versions. The attraction of a proxy for me is always the prospect of scratch building, so my cars tend to be heavier than tuned-up plastic cars will be.

The VRAA cars are very small and light, and have real skinny tires, and even then the 14k motors are only just enough to make them interesting to drive IMO, and that is on 12 Volts on my track. The cars we are considering have much more bodywork, much wider tires and in scratchbuilt form will weigh quite a bit more, I think than a VRAA car.

In the era we are looking at for this proxy there were times when the ground effect cars ran with no front wings at all. Some of those may be good choices.

[TuscoTodd]

While I haven't decided if I can fit this proxy into my schedule - I like the idea of it.
In regard to the motor scenario...
From my standpoint, the best racing I have seen has been when there has only been ONE motor and one allowable gear ratio.
A very fresh example of this is the Artin American Thunder fun run cars we ran last night on the tri-oval. These cars required that the factory white endbell Artin motor (13.1k at 12v) and associated Artin gearing be utilized. The result? EXTREMELY close and entertaining racing!
In fact - first place was a dog fight between three cars, all finishing with the same lap count with only 5 segments between the three and less than a 15% spread between the lap counts of first and last place after 8 minutes / four lanes of running!
In my book, it doesn't get much better than that! :)

Just something to consider when making the final ruling on the the motor(s), etc.
:handgestures-thumbup:

[Austin]