Future Digital Proxies - Ideas & Feedback

[Burrell]

Ok, so after completing the first digital proxy, let's have a discussion about what we learned and what we'd like to change for the next one. What worked, what didn't, new ideas, anything is open for discussion.

Some of my thoughts:

All cars need to have lights. While not required for the pit stops, it definitely is a benefit. Maybe this could even be used for one or more of the races to be night races.

We made a mistake about shipping calculations. Czar and I have discussed this in length, and we feel strongly that any proxy should include a donation to HRW for hosting our proxy. Harry also threw in a car for the winner completely out of his own generosity. We also do not feel that hosts should have to shoulder the entire cost of shipping like in many other proxies that I've seen. So if everybody chips in a little, then no one has to pay a lot. Everybody seemed to be fine with this for this proxy and hopefully it will be okay for the next one.

Summer seemed to be a bad time to start the proxy. I personally thought that it would be perfect, but I seemed to be more busy in the summer with travel, kid events, and other various things. So if we don't do it in the summer, do we wait until next fall to start or do we try to get the next one going this spring. Ideas?

What class of cars would everyone want for the next one? I know that people have suggested a DTM race, but the only issue I have with that is that there seem to be a couple of DTM proxies already going. Other ideas include CanAm cars, Group 5 cars, classics (Cobra, Cheetah, Porsche 904, Corvette Sting Ray, etc.). Thoughts and discussion welcome on this one.

So everyone else chime in. What's your feedback and ideas for changes in a digital proxy?

[BARC 1]

I would like to see a LeMans type race. Get some Gt 40's Porsche 917's Ferrari P4's hooked up.

I would also like to see the inclusion of some scratchbuilt chassis. Building cars is part of the fun.

I would also like to see some feedback on the car settings used during the race. Ie braking and speed settings used. I am not sure if any races were run with the real fuel simulation used where the load of the fuel affects the speed.

I will be in for the next one.

Re car returns. I am happy to pay for the final return of my car in addition to the entry fee.

Cheers

Dan

[dw5555]

Only issue I can see is all brands are not alike. If you allow multiple brands they are going to perform differently and probably have one brand standing out from the rest. Scratch builds are not in everyone's wheelhouse. I can understand that you want to expand this but personally I think you need to keep this more of a stock class vs all the proxies you see here on HRW where it's mostly scratch builds or highly modified.

With regards to the headlights, they should not be required or needed if you have Bruce's software or drivers display. Anyone that wants to host should have one or the other.

I personally am disappointed that the ghost cars were not utilized. That feature alone creates the unknown factor in this series. Finding yourself stuck behind a car that has a mind of his own waiting for the opportunity to pass can change the outcome of the race. This series was started to showcase the different features of Carrera Digital.

Dave

[R/TRandy]

[BARC 1]

I don't know about that. Keep things the same and you will end up with a field of Carrera Vettes. :D

[R/TRandy]

[Czar]

Maybe we eliminate the cars that won the last proxy from the next? In other words, maybe the next one should not allow the C7R? There are lots of other choices out there.

[lancelotalove]

Since the corvettes are dominate, maybe a corvette challenge class and then all the others in GT class?
If we have enough participants, this might be a possibility?

[buspor63]

I don't think we should fix what may not be broken. It was the first ever proxy, some first time participants and some first time host. Perhaps we should consider a fine tune of the formula. The GT cars from Carrera are great cars and there were a few that I had never had the chance to drive.

The C7R is a good car out of the box and the C6R is good with some work. That doesn't mean the other cars won't be as good with the same attention. I don't think it's fair penalizing either participant or car just because they run well. Going forward, I just may try an Audi, Aston or BMW.....I love Porsche's, but I tried that road years before.

The only other series of cars that I think would be good are the DTM's. All of the cars are the same and Carrera seems determined to release more and more. That's important so we don't have too many, ahem yellow Corvettes in the same heat LOL.

The beauty of Carrera cars are that they are plug and play. Some work is needed, but I don't think in our infancy, we're ready for chipped Slot.it's, NSR's and scratch builds. I was thinking the emphasis was on getting new racers and host involved. Part of that equation is I think the cars should have lights, a D132 car comes with them. I may have gotten more body float had I not had to contend with the bulbs in the light nacelles and routing the wires.

Timing and scoring. I think we all learned a lot. My first round I was plagued by a bad data cable. I tried to use a friends app connect and iPad, but saw it wouldn't do what we needed. I was lucky enough to have a back up plastic track to run on, but it only had a BB, old lap timer and first generation pit lane. We could only place the cars over all by comparing lap times at the end of the night. Also, we couldn't use fuel, because some cars didn't have lights. To fix my track, I bought the right data cable and used the software a lot before hand. When I did run my race, I had planned on fuel, but I set the races too short for it to be a factor. Lesson learned. Familiarity with the Yingling software is a must. I can't imagine trying to score thirteen cars again any other way. My whole track has been a science experiment, my brother reminds me of that often. I have discovered that the more I use it, the more I understand it and the smoother my night runs. A good track call system is important, I just added the Big Red Button to mine. Ed Magner designed it, he has instructions on SCI. Using a track call also allows you to stop the race clock for any reason, very important when running a proxy where all the cars are scored against one another, but may not actually run against one another.

Ghost/Pace car. I'm all for it. We raced four cars and could have used a ghost. It's hard on my track because it's wood, the car has to go pretty slow. On my brothers track, I chose not to because I quickly rescheduled and didn't want to through anything new in. Any time a ghost is used, you really need to have a good track call system such as the BRB.

The race format is good, I wonder if there aren't ways to improve it though. It may have been this way, but two drivers is barely a digital race, definitely with a ghost car if that's the case. Perhaps longer heats too, gotta hit that fuel window.

Performance settings. The more I use these, the more I've learned how they effect the car. I always use less brake, fifty percent or so. Max speed I've been turning down on Carrera cars too, makes them easier to drive and faster around the track. With decreased max speed though comes more fuel consumption. I understand that the CU only reads the controller position. Less max speed equals more max throttle and fuel consumption, or so I think.

Who's next?

[Czar]

My statement about eliminating the Corvette, was just conversation. All we are talking about is ideas for the next WDP. If I make a statement, it is up for discussion. Nothing has been determined. The Corvette (or name your marque) challenge series is an idea to consider. I don't think I will start another WDP until closer to the Fall, so there is plenty of time to discuss new ideas before any decisions are made by me. If someone else wants to run with the idea before the next WDP, that is fine. In fact, I hope that Burrell and I are not the only ones to ever start a digital proxy. But, with the Carson and oXigen chips we now have even more opportunities, including the ability to race Carrera cars on tracks besides Carrera. If we (or someone else) doesn't pursue the idea of cross-platform digital racing, there is no reason for these chips in the first place. if digital racers don't capitalize on cross-platform racing it will only solidify the thinking that everything has to be proprietary to the individual manufacturers. We pioneered with the first digital proxy, no reason to not lead the way in incorporating different tracks with future proxies. Burrell and I were clear from the beginning that a lot of what happened during the first WDP would be the opportunity to learn how best to run these types of proxies. That is why each host had so much latitude in running their events. So keep the suggestions coming and let's just push the envelope a little more.

[Burrell]

Lots of good conversation so far.

Regarding scratch building and multiple manufacturers cars, I think that we need to take this in steps. The first one helped us figure out what worked and what didn't. I say that we implement changes to the next proxy and come up with some standards. Then, in the future, we can branch out to all types of variations. I could see running a proxy with multiple classes, an open one and a stock one. I'd really like to keep an option for stock/basic blueprinting because it makes it more inviting for new people to try the proxy. When we gain enough interest, we can add all kinds of variables.

Regarding the new Slot.it chip, does anyone know when it will be available? If its not until late this year, we make have to wait until the 3rd proxy to bring it in to play.

Regarding multiple cars of the same livery, I can really see that being an issue when the new Ford GT comes out. We'll only have one livery for the next race and by the 3rd one probably only two. We could do a first-come, first-serve sign up so that the people who want to use the same car has to do a fantasy livery or do something to significantly differentiate it from the other. We had that issue when the software paired up two of the yellow corvettes in the same heat. We added blue painter's tape to the roof of one to help the drivers easily tell them apart.

[kidvoltage]

We'd be interested in taking part in the next rendition. We can offer our track and possibly some prizes from Digital Racing Solutions, maybe you've heard of us. 8-)

As for rules, all I can offer is the more simple approach is best. If there are clear advantages to certain cars within the given range then that needs to be taken into account or you end up with a single model series. Also some limits to power ranges/limits at the tracks so the level playing field is just that.

I think a dedicated ghost car could be part of the equation. Just send an extra car with the field clearly marked as the ghost car. It can be replaced as needed.

[BARC 1]

Yes the C7 Corvettes were in a class of their own. Not sure why as I imagine the running gear is the same in all of the Carrera cars?

I had a Corvette to enter, but I am a Porsche guy, so I just couldn't do it. :D When my car is returned to me I will test it and then tear it down to see if I can make it better, and then run it against my Corvette to see if I can get it close. I mean in a stock class there is only so much you can do, and if that is what this is going to remain, then people will gravitate to the cars that work the best, and you have the danger of a single model of car being entered.

Digital though does offer power management. If one particular car is just too good out of the box, adjust the chip to compensate for it. If the C7 is dominating take all the C7's and detune them to a power level of 7 or something to level up the playing field. We can do this so why not? That is the beauty of digital.

If you are going to keep this simple and run stock, then the series will have to figure out a way of dealing with a box stock that is just better then the rest. If you don't then that is what you will end up seeing as the car of choice. Do you really want a proxy with a dozen yellow Corvettes? Detuning or excluding would be one way of dealing with this phenomenon when it arises. Detuning seems simple enough. The first race track hosts takes all the dominant cars and dials the chip back. Just an idea.

Cheers

Dan

[dw5555]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to run just Carrera cars. I meant running different Mfgs in the same race. Scaley makes a huge selection and different types that can be converted as another option. I think your always gonna have one or two cars that pretty much dominates a series. I don't think there is anyway around it. If you do find one car that dominates (such as the Vette in this series) maybe institute a slight weight penalty.

Dave

[Drewbert34]

Any thought given to winner of last race starts last in next race?...or maybe adjust down brakes or speed?

I can think of a couple exceptional models that if massaged could run away from a pack.

Obviously, if all equally massaged that separation becomes even greater.

Just thinking of ways for less competitive models to be competitive.

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