Future Digital Proxies - Ideas & Feedback

[TuscoTodd]

[Czar]

I understand your point Todd. Two points I would make. First: EVERYONE going into this proxy understood (or should have) that there were going to be lessons learned that could be applied to future proxies. This is one of those learning points. I agree with you, the cars should be run with the wishes of the owner respected in regards to tuning. I think the answer is (as has been stated) for the owner to include information about power and brake settings and those settings should be adhered to. Second: In only one instance were the cars adjusted by the track host. I don't think that had a significant affect on the outcome as there are so many other variables that were encountered, including the skill of the participating drivers, how fast deslotted cars were marshaled, errant lane changes that caused another car to crash, etc. But I do agree that each car should be raced with any configuration, allowed by rules, the owner wants. For instance, I asked that my tires only be cleaned with water and I hope that was respected.

[Czar]

[BARC 1]

When the new decoder becomes available, I think this is a grand idea. It would be one way for the consumers to give back to a manufacturer that has delivered something we have all been moaning about.

You got to think Slot-it might want to be involved in a proxy like this in one way or another.

A couple of issues would need to be considered as the chips will require custom fitting so the cars won't be stock anymore.

I am not sure what this new chip has for lighting options or plugs. I am not sure this new chip is a plug and play thing, so it could require some soldering skills and the install might be intimidating to some.

Again I will bring up the inclusion of scratch builds. With all the variables of digital racing as discussed I am not sure what a scratchbuilt entry is bringing to the game other then satisfaction to its builder. There seems to be so much more going on in proxy racing,and even in analog the fastest chassis does not mean it is going to win. Again just my opinion, and topic for this discussion.

Cheers

Dan

[dw5555]

Todd,
A couple of things come to mind with regard to power settings. One host may be using a 1/32 Ps, another using 1/24 Ps and another using an adjustable Ps. Getting consistent voltages across the board will be difficult at best. Also the digital accessories like higher voltages to perform at their best. I run my track at 17v to make sure any lazy lane changers work properly however most of the cars are set to run at 30% power. As also pointed out a technical track won't require the speed hence lower power settings where a larger track likes the power to stretch out. In my opinion this is why it should be left up to the host to set power to his particular track as long as it's the same for all cars.

Dave

[kidvoltage]

I concur. Power should be up to the track host, he knows the needs as well as the abilities of his crew. It should be up to the series host to design it so that we don't move into the stupid speed range. I imagine the cars will suffer a little more contact then your average analog series but there are speeds at which cars basically disintegrate. So just how fast do you need to go on a track full of cars?

[Burrell]

[kidvoltage]

I was able to get support/prizes/swag from Dave K. for the first Carrera Scramble. All I had to do was ask.

[lancelotalove]

I have not seen or heard about this new slot it chip. The scalextric digital LED is on the center of the slot and from what i see the Carrera LED is off center (Carrera is 12-13mm or 1/2 inch off center).
Does this new slot it chip have 2 LEDs (1 on center and 1 off center) and will it run both scaly and Carrera protocals? From what i read couple of years ago, they are very different protocals.
The slot it chips are capable of controlling stronger faster motors (slot it orange, yellow and other makers motors) than the scaly chip. This might be another variable in the mix.

I think all cars should be controlled with stock Carrera chip old style or new style.

[dw5555]

http://www.slotcarillustrated.com/porta ... hp?t=96658

The only issue would be cost which people are guessing in the $50 range. Not out of line for people that run on both types of track so the real question is how many people do you know have different brand of tracks. Only tracks around here are Carrera so it has no use for me personally.

Dave

[R/TRandy]

[TuscoTodd]

Randy,
On the analog racing / proxies I have been involved with, there are no methods I know of to limit overall max voltage via an individual controller (other than to limit how aggressive you are with your trigger finger). There "may" be some more exotic controllers out there that have that feature, but the normal Professor Motor, Parma, Difalco, OMNI, etc controllers that are typically used in the normal racing I have been involved with have the same simply pots to adjust throttle and brake sensitivity that you mentioned. However, if a limit in voltage is needed, the only way to apply that is via turning down the voltage at the power supply, which effects all cars equally.

As far as the various driver controller settings - each car is raced by the same driver/controller combos as the cars rotate through the lanes. The controllers used by each driver are, as you noted, set up based on a particular driver's driving style. They are not set to the characteristics of the particular car being run.
However, if I understand the comments, the tuning of the chips on each car is being compared to the individual controller settings of differing driver controllers - so maybe I misunderstood how these settings are done?
Does this mean that the chip settings are changed as the cars rotate from driver to driver to tailor each to the individual driver's style of driving, similar to the varying controller settings of analog?
In other words, as an example, if driver one would set the chip at 80% power, 50% brake, to match his driving style, when the car rotates to driver two, is that driver then able to readjust the settings to best match his driving style which might be say 90% power, 100% brake for his run - with each subsequent driver potentially changing those settings to their driving style through the entire rotation? If so, then I completely misunderstood how these adjustments are being made and agree that those chip settings are somewhat similar (at least on the braking side) to the adjustment of a controller's pot to match a driver's driving style.
However, if the chip is set to a specific setting at the beginning of the race and is not changed as it rotates from driver to driver to tailor to the individual driving styles - I don't see how this equivalent?

I have driven cars in proxies that were overpowered/poorly balanced/ill handling etc. And what is typically found (and I think it has been echoed a number of times through the various posts) is that if you lower the voltage available, a car that was a handful can become much easier to drive. However, the original point I was trying to make was that any changes should be applied equally to all cars - not varied on a car by car basis. If car 1 is a handful and limiting it's power to 80% calms it down and improves it's handling, in my mind, that same limit should be applied equally to all the cars - as car 2 may be "ok" handling at 100% but if it is lowered to the same 80% - it may make it handle "great"! From the tuner/builder standpoint - this keeps things on an level playing field for all entries and allows the builders / tuners to see how well they did in setting up their entry for the particular venue.

Dave -
In regard to the comments about hosts limiting voltage based on their track layout, power supply - I never meant to allude to that not being appropriate. If a host feels the overall voltage is too high, I agree completely that they should limit the chip settings to something appropriate. Again, my thoughts are that those limits should be applied universally to the entire field. If it is determined that power should be limited to say 30% power - all cars should be limited to same 30%. Not some at 20%, some at 30% and some at 40% - based on how well each is able to use the available power.

Hopefully the above comments made sense.
Please note - I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers with these comments - just trying to understand and help to generate thoughts regarding the next digital proxy.
Thanks!
:)

[R/TRandy]

[TuscoTodd]

Randy -
Thank you very much for the clarification.
With only one set of chip values being shared and no comments regarding how other drivers may have further adjusted those power settings (plus the comments by others about: dialing back winning cars, etc) - I hope you can see how I ended up with the impression I did.
So again, thank you for taking the time to clarify this.
Have a good week!
Todd

[BARC 1]

Good idea on the dedicated programming CU.

Interesting comments are being made. I myself have flipped my opinion a couple of times, after reading more thoughts on this from others

I think I am leaning to drivers setting up the cars to their liking. Digital allows for this, so why not utilize it including setting the voltage. Digital allows for each car to run at its own voltage setting and this setting does not affect the others. As a builder I want my car to be the fastest and smoothest, but I depend on drivers to get the most out of it on the track it is being run on. Only they know what works best for them.

Let's be honest about entering a proxy. Forget the idea that a proxy is the best way to determine the best car. This will even be more the case in digital. Entering a car is about having fun.

Once again I will go back to the inclusion of a scratchbuilt car. With all the other variables that will affect the outcome of a race in digital, does anyone really think a scratchbuilt will run away from the others? For me part of the fun is building a car to enter. Take that away and by default, I am less interested. Obviously this is my opinion and my perception of what I find enjoyable about proxies. I will use my experience as an example. I am primarily a 143 scale guy who scratch builds cars. This scale does not promote proxy racing. So to enjoy proxy racing To its fullest I had to combine 132 into my interests. So it stands to reason that for me to enjoy digital proxy racing, one component of the experience would be the satisfaction of watching a unique creation compete. Take that away, and you take away some of the desire to participate, especially knowing that the stock car I am entering is going to have the heck tuned out of it. So if I can't scratchbuilt, and my tuned stock car is going to be "personalized" by each unique driver, then really what is the point of sending in a car? Instead I could just ask each track host to run a car from his inventory in my name. The satisfaction of being involved would be about the same.

Cheers
Dan